Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 25:15 — 46.7MB) | Embed
Subscribe or Follow Spotify | Android | Pandora | iHeartRadio | TuneIn | Deezer | RSS | More
Rishad and I have already done our double espressos and you’re getting two scoops today.
Scoop #1: I’ve got personal news (hint: it’s very on-theme with Rishad’s own advice about rethinking work).
Scoop #2: I’m re-scooping one of my all-time favorite conversations — with Rishad Tobaccowala, futurist, author, and former Chief Strategy/Growth Officer (now Senior Advisor) of Publicis Groupe — because his book Rethinking Work just got a fresh round of buzz, including a new Fortune Magazine interview. It holds up. It more than holds up.
Some people start their day with coffee. Rishad does everything big; he starts with two doppios (that’s four espresso shots!) He also goes big in challenging the premise of everything we think we know about work. So, after bonding over caffeine rituals, the meat of this episode is a robust conversation about what actually needs to change in corporate life. 
Rishad is like Cher.
You don’t even need to use his last name. He’s a known guy. But, if you’re new to the industry, Rishad Tobaccowala is a big name in advertising and marketing: Business Week has called him a top business leader, Time Magazine named him one of its five marketing innovators, and he was inducted into the Advertising Hall of Fame. He’s the author of Restoring the Soul of Business: Staying Human in the Age of Data. But this conversation focused on his more recent book, Rethinking Work and his pointed advice for companies who are fixated on the wrong question (“How many days a week should people be in the office?”) instead of the right one (“How do we rethink our strategy, our org design, and the difference between managing and leading?”).
Bossing Bad. Influencing Good.
Rishad walks through why “bossing” needs to morph to mentoring/influencing. We talk fractional employment, the rise of the “company of one,” and why #AI means there will be more work to do but fewer traditional jobs to fill. Sure there will be growing pain, because as he plainly says, “Change sucks. But irrelevance is worse.”
If you prefer to listen/watch to get these kinds of insights, you’re in luck. Rishad launched the Rethinking Work podcast. In his recent episode you can catch another great mind who has been an Insider Interviews guest, my friend, Lou Paskalis, in one of the most pratical and frank career-advice convos for marketers, and even 1099’ers, I’ve heard in a long time. 
In addition to a musical interlude (!), because this is, at heart, a show about media, marketing, and advertising, we close on why storytelling isn’t a casualty of the data age — it’s the whole point of it.
Speaking of storytelling…
If you’re reading vs. listening, my scoop is that I’m emblematic of the human v. AI still needed for the writing. I’m “story-telling” for Nielsen now, as a Senior Writer on the Global Brand Marketing team. Listen to why I think it’s a company whose “Nielsen Way” culture is worthy of a case study in Rishad’s next book. Of course this podcast will continue! 
In this episode:
- Why Rishad’s parents pushed him toward math (“learn how to think”) even though he wanted to be a writer
- The four trends reshaping work: aging/shifting demographics, technology, the marketplace economy, and the rise of the 1099 workforce
- Why “return to office” has nothing to do with the actual future of work
- Corporate “keyword bingo” — future, agile, personalized, talent — and the gap between what companies say and what they do
- The fractional employee model: how to reduce headcount by 20% without a single layoff
- Boss vs. manager vs. leader, and why most companies are drowning in the wrong one
- Generosity as strategy, and the philosophy behind the Tobaccowala Foundation
- Why storytelling is “data with a soul,” and why AI makes human insight more valuable, not less
- The playlist metaphor for the future of work, music, and marketing
⏱️ Key Moments
- 0:00 — Two scoops, one triple espresso: why this episode is back in your feed
- 2:20 — Coffee confessions: quad espressos, oat milk, and “drugs of choice”
- 4:40 — The math degree Rishad never wanted — and how it rewired his thinking
- 10:30 — Why “return to office” is the wrong question, full stop
- 11:40 — Corporate keyword bingo: future, agile, personalized, talent
- 14:00 — “Change sucks. But irrelevance is worse.”
- 19:50 — Fractional employees: cutting hours, not headcount
- 28:00 — Boss vs. leader (and the musical interlude)
- 44:20 — AI + HI: storytelling as “data with a soul”
- 47:50 — The playlist metaphor: the future of work, music, and marketing
Links & Resources
Connect with E.B. Moss and Insider Interviews: With Media & Marketing Experts
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mossappeal
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insiderinterviews
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/InsiderInterviewsPodcast/
Threads: https://www.threads.net/@insiderinterviews
If you enjoyed this episode, follow Insider Interviews on @YouTube, @Apple or @Spotify or your favorite app, AND please share with another smart business leader, and leave a comment, a like … or a tip in my jar!: https://buymeacoffee.com/mossappeal!
