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Five Podcast Pros Offer the Insider Scoop



In a spontaneous episode I discussed five different aspects of the business of podcasting – from using AI to “audio or video?”, to leveraging the star power and engagement power of podcasting.

You’ll hear from:

  • Michael Kaye, Director of Brand & Communications for OkCupid, an online dating app;
  • Brandon Reed, Host, formerly tired dad, and creator of 12 Hour Sound Machines, a viral podcast that helps people sleep;
  • Bona Rai, COO and Co-founder of Capsho, the tool that helped E.B. use AI to generate these very show notes (!);
  • Chris Whitman, Co-founder and Chief Strategy Officer of GlassBox Media, think ‘music label-meets-podcast marketing machine’; 
  • A.J. Feliciano, Head of The Roost Podcast Network from Warner Bros Discovery, that started the groundswell of podcasts leveraging video and has his finger on the pulse of monetizing best practices to meet the consumer where they’re consuming content.

 It’s five inspiring chats that reveal the brilliant possibilities of audio and video for the future including:

  1. How OkCupid leverages podcasting for success – earned or owned?
  2. The business model behind the 12 Hour Sound Machines podcast
  3. What Capsho is, and how this new tool taps AI to help podcasters save time
  4. How GlassBox Media cracks the code on growing podcast awareness and ups the value of creator IP

    A spontaneous interview at the Sounds Profitable event in Austin
  5. When is a podcast a video and a video a podcast? How should brands embrace the consumer’s content journey? The Roost tells all.

Chapter Summaries/Time Codes:

[00:00:01]

This is episode 5 of Insider Interviews, with five different guests included. Each of my guests spoke about a different area of the business of podcasting. This was recorded spontaneously right after a panel I conducted during SXSW for Sounds Profitable, featuring one of the panelists and four members of the audio ….

[00:01:42]

Michael Kaye, director of communications at OkCupid is naturally inclined towards earned, but says: “We’ve seen tremendous impact from both podcast advertising and from earned, pitching our experts to appear on other shows. In 2023, we’ll be looking again at podcast advertising.”

[00:03:57]

Brandon Reed’s podcast is called 12-Hour Sound Machines. It was created when his newborn couldn’t sleep through the night, now enjoying about 300,000 downloads a day. Reed started by first directly selling to brands, but now he’s on Megaphone, in the Spotify Audience Network so programmatic sales is a really good solution for him. Hear his explanation of why the moments before falling asleep are actually a powerful moment for advertisers….

[00:09:12]

Bona Rai is a co-founder of Capsho, a product that uses AI to tap audio files to create SEO-optimized content for podcasts. At just 10 months old they’re already embracing a more robust version of Capsho 2.0 coming this Spring.

[Note: I tried out Capsho 1.0 for most of these show notes, with an added “human touch!”]

[00:14:15]

Chris Whitman describes GlassBox Media like a record label for podcast hosts. Its goal is to grow the value of the IP for the creators across any sort of opportunity from a revenue perspective. “Now we represent around 65 shows, with no end in sight.”

[00:18:58]

A.J. Feliciano explains that The Roost podcast network is a video-first podcast network. “We have about 90 shows, a third of them are owned and operated. What is it about multiplatform distribution on podcasts that makes it so worthwhile for other podcasters?”

[00:21:18]

Our thinking around YouTube is that it’s less that it’s about video, and more about the platform itself. Who’s your target audience and where have they been conditioned to go to just consume content? And that’s why we’re seeing podcast-like content bringing such big numbers there.

[00:23:54]

The Roost podcast will always have a foundation in audio. It can have video, it can be on YouTube. Heck, we might even see a world a year or two where long form content is being distributed on TikTok.

[00:24:44]

In terms of measurement A.J. says, “A view and a download are counted two separate metrics: A view is :30 seconds of playback on YouTube and then audio download is :60 seconds by unique user. It’s still very much early days and we’re going to have to figure out ways to plug into that back end of YouTube API.” Adding, “We need to properly measure and communicate those returns for the advertising community.

What’s the reason why podcasting is so big today? It’s because Direct Response has used it as their primary tool. There’s money to be had –and we can do a lot better on this front.

[00:27:50]

One of the things that’s helped us build our business is looking beyond the podcast. If you want to properly tackle YouTube and TikTok and other new platforms that will inevitably join the fray into the future, we really have to almost take the “podcast” out of the center of our universe.

The theme music for Insider Interviews was composed and performed by the incomparable Grammy-winning John Clayton, and this episode was edited by Grace Morton.
Send questions or a suggestion for a next stellar guest to:  podcasts@mossappeal.com

Catch all Insider Interviews episodes on the business of #media, #marketing and advertising right here, or wherever you like to listen to #b2b podcasts. 

Connect with our Episode 5 guests here:

Michael Kaye

Brandon Reed

Bona Rai

Chris Whitman –

A.J. Feliciano

Connect with Insider Interviews:

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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mossappeal
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Mary Baglivo on Leadership and Building Brands on Purpose



How an unconventional journey to the C-suite of major ad agencies led to finding personal brand purpose

I remember Mary Baglivo in our Rutgers days as fun but focused. Yup, there are stories I can tell. But the stories we focus on in this episode are how she turned her intellectual curiosity, which skewed more to classes in Art History than Business, into a career that included running three major ad agencies and earning innumerable industry accolades.

An aspiring writer trying to make it in New York, Mary took a job at an ad agency. While learning on the go she caught the advertising bug, so much so that she moved from Madison Avenue to grad school followed by an ad agency gig in the Windy City that she couldn’t refuse.
That determination, and a knack for helping develop distinctive ad campaigns and insight-based marketing strategies, was recognized pretty quickly and helped her thrive in a male-dominated industry. She ultimately held President and C-level positions at leading global advertising agencies like JWT, Saatchi & Saatchi, and Euro RSCG Chicago.

“Defining a ‘brand’ is challenging. Clarifying your own brand is super important. A brand is more than its product attributes, obviously. It’s more than what it looks like. It’s certainly more than what an influencer portrays. It’s definitely got to be emotional, and probably involve all the senses in some way, shape, or form.”

After years of developing consumer brands like credit cards and cereal, Mary found her personal brand purpose – using her marketing expertise to help universities, museums, and foundations communicate their purpose.   Now, in addition to running the Baglivo Group – with a focus on key client Pace University – she is a sitting board member for multiple organizations, including the New York Women’s Foundation, and is intent on lifting up other women in business!

“The key job of a CEO is to make sure that their people are feeling good, are happy and motivated, and have the opportunities to learn.”

Mary and I dig into:

  • An explanation of brand purpose and how it differs from but informs brand identity
  • The moving target elements today of a solid brand campaign
  • The increased consumer mandate for purpose and ESG and the question of how/if that can be marketed
  • Can a person be a “brand” and how that applies to good leadership.
  • The best advice she received as a leader
  • How observing and working for people like “the most powerful woman in advertising,” Charlotte Beers, shaped her own leadership style and career
  • Her work with the Block and its impact on diversity messaging through art
  • The time and place for AI – yes, even in classrooms.

Mentioned in this episode:

Check out the Baglivo Group

Find out more about The New York Women’s Foundation and their upcoming Celebrating Women Breakfast 2023

Learn more about the Block Museum

SOCIAL:

Connect with Mary on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marybaglivo/

And, you can support this podcast here: 

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Please support Insider Interviews at buymeacoffee.com/mossappeal

Get Ready for Season 2 of Insider Interviews!



Get ready! Here’s what to expect for the next season of interviews featuring leading media, marketing and ad execs who share the “insider’s scoop” on the industry.

HINT: Expect to hear from renown leaders like Jarl Mohn who ran NPR and Mary Baglivo who ran Saatchi & Saatchi, to NFL marketers like Jen Kavanagh and Marissa Solis, to CMOs like Linda Bethea of Danone. Season 2 of Insider Interviews will be jam packed, so please follow now, or subscribe wherever you like to listen to #podcasts. But all of the Season 1 episodes are still informative for anyone interested in learning from major brands, publishers and media pros!

Oh, and if you’re curious, you’ll learn what E.B. was up to in 2022 while Insider Interviews was on hiatus. She’s available for more content marketing for your company, including getting you started with your own B2B podcast!


Ringing out the Old with News from E.B. for 2022



For the past 44 episodes of Insider Interviews I’ve put a lot of well-known media and marketing folks in the hot seat …And today’s guest is … E.B. Moss. Me. Because as we ring out the old and ring in the new I’ve got some news for you.

This nice round number, episode 45, will be temporarily one of the last for Insider Interviews for a while, as I embrace something really new. A fractional (year long) assignment as Senior Vice President of Content and Community at Brand Innovators. They create a community for marketers and and media folks through an incredible number of events and panel discussions, fireside chats, activations, tent poles, content articles, you name it.

In looking back to look forward, as I wrote in The Continuum recently, I had some wonderful conversations. After launching with programming pro, Gary Krantz, talking about audio and the evolution of radio and podcasting my very next episode was in March of 2020 was Shelly Palmer, the pundit, who accurately predicted that we all better have our tech set up well to work from home. Check.

In episode 7, Claude Silver, the Chief Heart Officer of Vayner Media, emphasized the need in our increasingly isolated environment to build relationships. And then Arra Yerganian educated us in episode 22, about the social determinants of health as we’re so impacted by our surroundings. (I hope you’re creating a safe space for yourself and finding ways to bring joy into your world, even as we have to isolate a little bit longer now.)
On the DEI front Robyn Streisand, founder of The Mixx, is doing a terrific job at educating brands on how to embrace diverse communities and market authentically. And then, hats off to KoAnn Skrzyniarz, for building Sustainable Brands and emphasizing brand purpose and the business value of embracing sustainability and purpose-driven messaging.
Talk about influencers.
That’s what Danielle Wiley of Sway did and really informed us about how to manage what’s been influential and what hasn’t. And it all kind comes together with Joe Jackman in episode 37, talking about reinvention. Because that’s what we’re all doing these days. Marc Kidd and Anna Bager each talked about the out of home ad industry and their headaches during a time when nobody was traveling. Captivate, where Marc is CEO, specialized in elevator advertising, and no one was going into office buildings! So they figured out how to pivot — or reinvent — by expanding their signage to places where people play and live like golf courses and apartment buildings. Anna Bager talked about how out of home signage really helped move public service messaging forward, especially with the healthcare messaging that is so important these days.
There were also some really impactful conversations with women in marketing. I want to thank, for example, Melissa Grady, the CMO of Cadillac, as well as Heidi Zak, the co-founder and CEO of third love, as just two examples.
And I was able to do articles on both of them for The Continuum. That’s the publication where I was editor in chief for the past year. We published some excellent articles about the need for both brand and demand marketing. That publication will continue to embrace the future. And it’s a very worthy read.
But I think as I look forward, and look back, some of Ruth Steven’s words were exactly right and underscores why my move to Brand Innovators will be so timely. Ruth is one of the foremost experts in B2B marketing.

And she said in our interview,

“Today, the ability of the salesperson to guide a purchase in the buyer’s direction and really understand the needs of that buyer has been eroded. So the marketer needs to step in and provide the educational content.”

So my friends, I’m going to keep finding lots of ways to help marketers get their message out and to help connect the seller, the buyer, the media organization and the marketer, and I look forward to being able to continue delivering you that insider scoop. Just from a different venue.
With that, I wish you all the very, very best and a happy and especially a healthy 2022, and hope to maintain my relationship with all of you through various forms of content, as well as hopefully at in-person event sooner rather than later.
I thank you so much for listening.
Post Script: If you haven’t heard it yet, I will pick up my “passion podcast” soon – about my “friends in high places” so please subscribe to It’s Quite a Living now to not miss a forthcoming moment when that relaunches in early 2022.
PPS: You can STILL follow me at @mossappeal on social media!


Jackman Reinvents

Joe Jackman Reinvents How Brands Embrace Change



Not many people – or brands — love change as much as Joe Jackman. The CEO of Jackman Reinvents has been a valued advisor to major retailers like Staples and brands like Flow Water, to B2B companies and to private equity partners. In this episode hear how he uses insights about trends and human behavior to drive change – or reinvention – and why that’s essential for a brand today.
Jackman believes that moving from town to town as a kid with his retail exec dad emboldened him and taught him relationship skills. To the envy of any who have experienced “imposter complex,” Jackman has confidently embraced change professionally, moving from creative to CMO to CEO, admittedly making it up as he went along at many of the stops along the way. Learn what’s needed for companies to thrive, and the consequences for those that choose to emulate ostriches.
This 40-minute conversation is filled with insights – or, as Jackman calls them when working with clients, “nuggets you can actually hang a strategy off.”
I encourage a full listen, but here are some unmissable elements and Jackman Takeaways:
  • Change has been coming fast and furious for many years, but the pandemic has compressed the need for speed to do things differently now; not just in people’s lives, but in the dynamics of the marketplace
 Jackman Takeaway: If you’re not changing and evolving, you’re stuck. That would probably be the best scenario. But the more common scenario is you’re moving backwards or, in business terms, you’re waning or dying.”
  • Joe Jackman explained his personal path and how an appreciation of change took him from creative director to business owner after stints helping launch brands like Joe Fresh (no relation!).
 Jackman Takeaway: “I said, why can’t I be a brand strategist? What do I need to know? Who do I need to learn from? And then, eventually, I just thought, ‘Why can’t I shape strategy at the very highest level?”
  • That attitude led to becoming a “reinventionist” – and the definition thereof:
Jackman Takeaway: “It’s a word I made up, but basically the definition is to just be really good at making change happen and to great benefit. The world needs more people with the skills and in the mindset of making change.”
  • Learn which immutable law of marketing he adopted from Al Ries and Jack Trout and built his agency on.
  • Jackman’s concept of reinvention is tied to “invention,” and a brand’s transformation is intrinsically tied to its DNA.
  • We need to collectively “reposition the entire idea of change in our minds as a positive force, and essential. It should be seen as creating the next best, most powerful and relevant version of you or your company.” (He literally wrote the book on this: “Reinventionist Mindset”with a set of five principles for change.)
  • The status quo – especially when paired with success — is a killer. Business model life cycles, executives’ tenures, the length of brands’ relevance, are all compressing. So, since “the future arrives daily,” brands need to figure out step-by-step how to evolve and “get pro athlete good at it or you have it done to you.”
  • Learn how Jackman helped Staples create trial stores that were hybrid workspace meets product sampling; and transformed Rexall, including being the first drugstore in Canada to start offering flu shots.
Jackman Takeaway on Retail: “In a world of choice, which is what the internet did to retail, retail was relatively slow to adapt…. There are exceptions, but retail generally sat and was lacking innovation… A lot of disruption was enabled by that sense of ‘oh, maybe one day we’ll evolve, but stores are the thing now…’. If retail leadership was prescient in reading what’s happening, Amazon wouldn’t exist. Casper wouldn’t exist. Netflix wouldn’t exist and there’d be a streaming service called Blockbuster.”
Big Jackman Takeaway: “There’s probably only one rule in all of this work in transformation: That you must deeply understand who your customers are and what they care about most. …beyond function, into the world of emotion. Most marketers focus on the means. Understand what the end is.”
  • Jackman gives his definition of a brand and why adopting that helps drive trust.
Jackman Takeaway: A brand equals purpose elevated to experience, delivered consistently. Most companies haven’t got that very well defined, and, and yet, if you look at the evidence, purpose led companies tend to outperform their peers.”
  • Cohesive messaging and linkage between ideas and all advertising is essential to continue the brand message.
  • It takes balance and a strong foundation to leverage both brand awareness and demand marketing (and he explains how it relates to dating!)
 Jackman Takeaway: “Performance marketing today is important — because it’s data centric and it’s measurable and we can adjust it — …as long as it ladders up to a higher order of purpose. If there’s no red thread that links to that, that’s not good. You can’t build trust. …And today’s measure of success is if I truly have a relationship with the brand.”

  • Trust, and being in a Values Economy is greatly affecting brands right now.
  • Sustainability and similar values are amplified more now in our pandemic context and impact how consumers make purchase decisions…There’s a lot of de-selection going on today.”
  • Jackman also explains the only two consumer choice tiebreakers

 

 Jackman Takeaway: “I’ve helped well north of 50 companies, and along the way I noticed we’re wired as humans to behave in certain ways. One of the things we don’t love is change. … But I observed ways of thinking and doing that enabled success to come faster… I got them down to five. … For example, the first one is ‘seek insight everywhere’.”
  • Learn to understand cultural currency and even reinvent the old marketing maxim of: ‘I need to pay attention to the customers that I do the most business with.’ (Hint: that’s fine, but you also “don’t want to be a brand or a business that’s like a great aunt: you know, fondly thought of, but never visited.” [That hit a little close to home for this host! Just sayin’.] So, learn to have relevant conversations with the up and coming set of customers [and with, note to self, the nieces and nephews.]
  • Understand how DEI dovetails with cultural relevance and brand values…  and what Jackman would change most about our world. (Note: Hat tip: Maryam Banikarim)
Finally, what brand would Jackman reinvent next?

“What do I want to reinvent? The next company that interests me or has lost its way. And there’s so much of that. How wonderful to spend a career on just figuring out the next act of whatever! And, since climate change is real, and we have to start to make a real difference, those are the kinds of opportunities I’m gravitating towards now. And I’m super excited to be at least part of the solution as best I can.”

If you found this helpful, please consider supporting this ad-free podcast with a small donation (“Buy me a Coffee!”) at https://www.buymeacoffee.com/mossappeal AND please share with others in marketing and business…and even add a review  on Apple, or wherever you like to listen!
Find Jackman Reinvents at: https://www.jackmanreinvents.com
On Insta: https://www.instagram.com/wearejackman/
Find Joe Jackman, his book and podcast at: https://www.joejackman.com/
Please follow E.B. Moss and Insider Interviews on:

Twitter:
@mossappeal 
@InsiderIntervws

IG:
@insiderinterviews 
@mossappeal

Facebook: InsiderInterviewsPodcast

And – if I can help you build or enhance a podcast for YOUR business, please reach out at podcasts@mossappeal.com !

E.B.

 


Ruth Stevens: No BS About B2B Marketing



Today’s episode could be a lesson plan about B2B Marketing because my guest, Ruth Stevens, has been teaching business to business marketing at NYU, Columbia, and B-schools around the world. And that’s in between being one of the foremost consultants in the space. So, Stevens calls BS on certain approaches to B2B we all better sit up and listen. Hear about the “fails” AND the best practices for what makes customers sit up and listen, too!

Stevens went right from business school herself to TimeWarner’s Book of the Month division, “thinking that I was joining one of the great book marketing companies in the world. I learned I was actually in one of the great direct marketing companies in the world.” After seven years of getting schooled in DM she mastered B2B first at Ziff Davis then IBM, simultaneously writing columns as well as teaching others at night.

In one example of her “no BS advice” articles, which appear everywhere from Biznology.com to HBR.org, Stevens says, “Don’t Be a Jerk on LinkedIn”, and advises sellers everywhere not to jump to the pitch. (“Building relationships on social media is hard. People get lazy and go straight to being the seller, and skip the personal establishment part. They’re also just sorely tempted by how easy it is to just make a mass pitch using LinkedIn Sales Navigator.”)

And, heed Stevens when she notes:

Today the ability of the salesperson to guide a purchase in their direction, but also to understand more deeply the needs of the buyer, has been eroded. So the marketer needs to step in and provide the educational content. This has driven the huge rise of B2B content marketing to allow that researcher better understanding of how to solve a problem or how your solution can be helpful, and to guide them toward calling you.

Companies’ approach to client retention is also in need of schooling:

Another area where I see B2B companies failing, or sub-optimizing, is retention marketing and it just drives me crazy because this is where the bulk of profits arise. Most companies organize it to be the responsibility of someone called ‘account management’, which is an important function, but marketing is not being asked to support it.

Stevens feels for the challenges faced by marketers and sellers these days in getting to know or reach know the buyer and ever-expanding buying groups — especially in enterprise purchasing:

Marketers need to try to replicate that old relationship building aspect by identifying the members of the buying circle and either find out through outbound calling, for example, or social listening, or infer what their agendas are, because each member of the buying circle usually has a different agenda, different need. And then try to serve those needs on a one-to-one basis. And despite all of our wonderful MarTech and data, it’s really hard to do.

That’s also why events (especially virtual events) have taken on an even larger role — as a place researchers can get their questions answered. So, Stevens points out, we need to be even more active at business events than before, and to create our own opportunities, webinars and meetings to build those now more elusive business and sales relationships.

The trick there, as with everywhere, as you’ll hear in this episode, is how one shows up at those events or in that content. No pants on a Zoom aside, business presence still needs panache and empathy.

You’ll hear many tips and lessons from “Professor Stevens” in this episode, including:
  • How creative still needs to be about education, but in a context that captures attention and builds trust.
  • How and why we stumble when we try to apply traditional consumer creative strategies to B2B and risk sounding “tinny or irrelevant” — but why storytelling is still a “watchword” for B2B.
  • Why it’s wrong for the brand power to be measured by if it helps the salesperson get a meeting: “Asking marketers to base their entire value proposition to the firm on sales results unfairly puts the sales piece of the puzzle into the marketer’s metrics kit. If the marketers are handing good quality leads and generating interest and a perception of value in the marketplace, and the sales team can’t close the deal, then marketing shouldn’t be taking the hit for that… We need other metrics to help marketers understand what they’re delivering and help management.”
  • And, since Stevens also wrote the book on data-driven marketing (literally) she suggests looking at such metrics as cost per lead, or cost for qualified lead. While lead-to-sales conversion rate shouldn’t be marketing’s, “we need an awareness metric. Or maybe a trust metric, that can credit marketing with all of the earlier pre-lead stuff.”
  • Why the goal of B2B marketing is to communicate that “We are experts in the problem that you have, and you can trust us to help you solve the problem”, but needs to get that across without saying as much and still creating an emotional connection even though you’re buying for business purposes.”

Hey, her words, not mine, but: “this is why the B2B agency function exists in the world because they know what they’re doing and they can come up with messaging strategies that grab attention and deliver the message and in a way that makes sense to the business buyer.”

Finally, as I’m also Editor of The Continuum, a publication about brand and demand marketing, I had to ask if there’s a difference in awareness and performance marketing for B2B vs. B2C. The professorial answer?

“No, it’s the same concept: you need brand and demand for both B2B and B2C, but down on the ground, we’re talking about a very different buying process: B2B is more complicated. It’s longer. It involves more individuals, all of whom have to be engaged with and influenced… such as when it comes to raw materials, professional services, technology, and other business process oriented purchasing, which typically involve a large number of people. So the whole sales and marketing function needs to support that.”

Please find and follow Ruth Stevens for B2B help without the BS:

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ruthstevens

Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/RuthPStevens 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/emarketingstrategy

Please follow E.B. Moss and Insider Interviews on:

Twitter:
@mossappeal 
@InsiderIntervws

IG:
@insiderinterviews 
@mossappeal

Facebook: InsiderInterviewsPodcast

If you found this helpful, or liked any of my Insider Interviews episodes, please add a review  on Apple, share this episode, and of course to support this show you can “buy me a coffee!”: https://buymeacoffee.com/mossappeal
If I can help you connect YOUR podcast/tv/content dots, or just get started with a good #b2b podcast, please reach out to me at podcasts@mossappeal.com