For the past 44 episodes of Insider Interviews I’ve put a lot of well-known media and marketing folks in the hot seat …And today’s guest is … E.B. Moss. Me. Because as we ring out the old and ring in the new I’ve got some news for you.
This nice round number, episode 45, will be temporarily one of the last for Insider Interviews for a while, as I embrace something really new. A fractional (year long) assignment as Senior Vice President of Content and Community at Brand Innovators. They create a community for marketers and and media folks through an incredible number of events and panel discussions, fireside chats, activations, tent poles, content articles, you name it.
In looking back to look forward, as I wrote in The Continuum recently, I had some wonderful conversations. After launching with programming pro, Gary Krantz, talking about audio and the evolution of radio and podcasting my very next episode was in March of 2020 was Shelly Palmer, the pundit, who accurately predicted that we all better have our tech set up well to work from home. Check.
In episode 7, Claude Silver, the Chief Heart Officer of Vayner Media, emphasized the need in our increasingly isolated environment to build relationships. And then Arra Yerganian educated us in episode 22, about the social determinants of health as we’re so impacted by our surroundings. (I hope you’re creating a safe space for yourself and finding ways to bring joy into your world, even as we have to isolate a little bit longer now.)
On the DEI front Robyn Streisand, founder of The Mixx, is doing a terrific job at educating brands on how to embrace diverse communities and market authentically. And then, hats off to KoAnn Skrzyniarz, for building Sustainable Brands and emphasizing brand purpose and the business value of embracing sustainability and purpose-driven messaging.
Talk about influencers.
That’s what Danielle Wiley of Sway did and really informed us about how to manage what’s been influential and what hasn’t. And it all kind comes together with Joe Jackman in episode 37, talking about reinvention. Because that’s what we’re all doing these days. Marc Kidd and Anna Bager each talked about the out of home ad industry and their headaches during a time when nobody was traveling. Captivate, where Marc is CEO, specialized in elevator advertising, and no one was going into office buildings! So they figured out how to pivot — or reinvent — by expanding their signage to places where people play and live like golf courses and apartment buildings. Anna Bager talked about how out of home signage really helped move public service messaging forward, especially with the healthcare messaging that is so important these days.
There were also some really impactful conversations with women in marketing. I want to thank, for example, Melissa Grady, the CMO of Cadillac, as well as Heidi Zak, the co-founder and CEO of third love, as just two examples.
And I was able to do articles on both of them for The Continuum. That’s the publication where I was editor in chief for the past year. We published some excellent articles about the need for both brand and demand marketing. That publication will continue to embrace the future. And it’s a very worthy read.
But I think as I look forward, and look back, some of Ruth Steven’s words were exactly right and underscores why my move to Brand Innovators will be so timely. Ruth is one of the foremost experts in B2B marketing.
And she said in our interview,
“Today, the ability of the salesperson to guide a purchase in the buyer’s direction and really understand the needs of that buyer has been eroded. So the marketer needs to step in and provide the educational content.”
So my friends, I’m going to keep finding lots of ways to help marketers get their message out and to help connect the seller, the buyer, the media organization and the marketer, and I look forward to being able to continue delivering you that insider scoop. Just from a different venue.
With that, I wish you all the very, very best and a happy and especially a healthy 2022, and hope to maintain my relationship with all of you through various forms of content, as well as hopefully at in-person event sooner rather than later.
I thank you so much for listening.
Post Script: If you haven’t heard it yet, I will pick up my “passion podcast” soon – about my “friends in high places” so please subscribe to It’s Quite a Living now to not miss a forthcoming moment when that relaunches in early 2022.
PPS: You can STILL follow me at @mossappeal on social media!
Bart Roselli of Veritone One has seen the audio space grow exponentially in his over 15 years of media, marketing strategy, and account management experience. Now, as SVP Growth, he leverages his breadth of knowledge to enhance agency-media vendor relationships and help ensure client goals are set smartly for the space, and fulfilled across multiple channels of audio opportunities…including having an eye towards integrating Veritone AI technology to enhance performance.
After comparing notes on our common ground of NJ to CA lives, in Episode 41 Bart explains the evolution of audio ad tech to how audio is also bought, sold and marketed differently these days.
“It’s not a one size fits all media world anymore. It used to be radio, print, and tv. Then digital started to evolve and now you have different tracking elements as we’re moving towards a cookieless space. So marketing has evolved.”
Hear how to keep up with all the changes as Bart and I also discuss:
How audio marketing has completely evolved in via multi-touchpoints
Following the dollars via advances in digital tracking
From compliance to engineering, how the backend of Veritone’s digital infrastructure “takes a village”
The changes in how people consume media – including the impact of the pandemic on podcasts – and how brands need to fit into lives and attention spans differently
Embracing change (a la 37 with Joe Jackman) but why Bart says, “If you’re reading about it in the trades you’re behind”
Utilizing artificial intelligence and synthetic voice to super-serve clients (while avoiding “deep fakes!”)
Bart’s stance on the brand and demand continuum
Tapping data as the modern version of a crystal ball to navigate millions of shows to pick up and coming winners and properly message in the right podcasts
The difference between embedded and digital ad insertion – and use cases for each (You can take a deeper dive into ad sales from Bart on the Podcast Advertising Playbook episode with Heather Osgood.)
The reality of CPM pricing and measurement
And overall remembering:
“If you’re not thinking of channels – plural, you’re thinking of audio and your marketing incorrectly and you’re missing a big chunk of audience.”
And big news! You can watch the unedited version of this episode now as video on YouTube!
(Don’t judge my kitchen.)
You can also reach out to be considered for an episode — or suggest questions or a guest — or to have your own bespoke podcast series produced and/or hosted by E.B. Moss. Email us at firstname.lastname@example.org.
Katie Kempner may have appeared in the cult-classic films Scam and Class of Nuke ‘Em High, but she’s much better known for her corporate communications credentials. In Epi 38, she switches roles from interviewing others, or landing her clients interviews as a PR phenom, and sits instead in my guest seat.
Kempner and I took a few fun minutes at the top to discuss our mutually limited—yet memorable—acting experiences (see bonus image, below), but then dove in to how taking a risk paid her career-making dividends, and her tangible takeaways about earned and owned media today.
Stumbling into her Niche
When her prospects as an MTV VJ or starlet seemed slim Kempner took a job at a staffing company to avoid having to return to her parents’ home after college.
An opening at one of their client’s shops, the then still nascent advertising agency CP+B, changed her career path forever; Kempner talked her way into a role working with their new business division!
Kempner stayed with the award-winning agency for almost 20 years, and its acquiring company, MDC, from its roots as a small Miami office to regional powerhouse to a global super machine. But…
She always dreamed of starting her own firm. Solid relationships with her employer allowed her to launch Kempner Communications and keep CP+B as her first, and biggest, client.
How she lives the “reinventionist” philosophy of one of her current clients and my previous guest, Joe Jackman! (Check out Epi 37 if you missed it.)
I am the product of hard work and being in the right place at the right time.
Kempner has witnessed the rise in popularity of owned media, and she discusses why she still leans more toward earned media, but…
Always one to embrace future concepts, Kempner also discusses the benefits of client-created media and how it can help reach an intended audience.
Speaking of audiences, we discussed the shifting audience perspectives as the media world functions with fewer high-profile journalists with readership at scale, and more outlets to tell stories.
Listen for Kempner’s recommendations on balancing quantity and quality in earned media.
In one way, the proliferation of media is fantastic because there are more places to go.
Kempners Tips for Getting Started in Today’s PR World
Be a strong communicator
Be careful with your words and a scrupulous editor
Knowing why you’re crafting a message can help determine where to place it.
Knowing what your clients are trying to say helps to determine to whom they’re talking.
And personally? Just as she asks of the guests she interviews on Perspectives, Kempner’s answer to what advice she’d offer: “You should speak kindly to yourself…and I don’t mean live in some kind of la-la land where you’re not being realistic, but be good to yourself and be your own best friend.”
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If I can help you connect your podcast/tv/content dots—or, just want help getting started with a podcast or content marketing strategy, please reach out to me at email@example.com.
Not many people – or brands — love change as much as Joe Jackman. The CEO of Jackman Reinvents has been a valued advisor to major retailers like Staples and brands like Flow Water, to B2B companies and to private equity partners. In this episode hear how he uses insights about trends and human behavior to drive change – or reinvention – and why that’s essential for a brand today.
Jackman believes that moving from town to town as a kid with his retail exec dad emboldened him and taught him relationship skills. To the envy of any who have experienced “imposter complex,” Jackman has confidently embraced change professionally, moving from creative to CMO to CEO, admittedly making it up as he went along at many of the stops along the way. Learn what’s needed for companies to thrive, and the consequences for those that choose to emulate ostriches.
This 40-minute conversation is filled with insights – or, as Jackman calls them when working with clients, “nuggets you can actually hang a strategy off.”
I encourage a full listen, but here are some unmissable elements and Jackman Takeaways:
Change has been coming fast and furious for many years, but the pandemic has compressed the need for speed to do things differently now; not just in people’s lives, but in the dynamics of the marketplace
Jackman Takeaway: “If you’re not changing and evolving, you’re stuck. That would probably be the best scenario. But the more common scenario is you’re moving backwards or, in business terms, you’re waning or dying.”
Joe Jackman explained his personal path and how an appreciation of change took him from creative director to business owner after stints helping launch brands like Joe Fresh (no relation!).
Jackman Takeaway: “I said, why can’t I be a brand strategist? What do I need to know? Who do I need to learn from? And then, eventually, I just thought, ‘Why can’t I shape strategy at the very highest level?”
That attitude led to becoming a “reinventionist” – and the definition thereof:
Jackman Takeaway: “It’s a word I made up, but basically the definition is to just be really good at making change happen and to great benefit. The world needs more people with the skills and in the mindset of making change.”
Jackman’s concept of reinvention is tied to “invention,” and a brand’s transformation is intrinsically tied to its DNA.
We need to collectively “reposition the entire idea of change in our minds as a positive force, and essential. It should be seen as creating the next best, most powerful and relevant version of you or your company.” (He literally wrote the book on this: “Reinventionist Mindset”with a set of five principles for change.)
The status quo – especially when paired with success — is a killer. Business model life cycles, executives’ tenures, the length of brands’ relevance, are all compressing. So, since “the future arrives daily,” brands need to figure out step-by-step how to evolve and “get pro athlete good at it or you have it done to you.”
Learn how Jackman helped Staples create trial stores that were hybrid workspace meets product sampling; and transformed Rexall, including being the first drugstore in Canada to start offering flu shots.
Jackman Takeaway on Retail: “In a world of choice, which is what the internet did to retail, retail was relatively slow to adapt…. There are exceptions, but retail generally sat and was lacking innovation… A lot of disruption was enabled by that sense of ‘oh, maybe one day we’ll evolve, but stores are the thing now…’. If retail leadership was prescient in reading what’s happening, Amazon wouldn’t exist. Casper wouldn’t exist. Netflix wouldn’t exist and there’d be a streaming service called Blockbuster.”
Big Jackman Takeaway: “There’s probably only one rule in all of this work in transformation: That you must deeply understand who your customers are and what they care about most. …beyond function, into the world of emotion. Most marketers focus on the means. Understand what the end is.”
Jackman gives his definition of a brand and why adopting that helps drive trust.
Jackman Takeaway:“A brand equals purpose elevated to experience, delivered consistently. Most companies haven’t got that very well defined, and, and yet, if you look at the evidence, purpose led companies tend to outperform their peers.”
Cohesive messaging and linkage between ideas and all advertising is essential to continue the brand message.
It takes balance and a strong foundation to leverage both brand awareness and demand marketing (and he explains how it relates to dating!)
Jackman Takeaway: “Performance marketing today is important — because it’s data centric and it’s measurable and we can adjust it — …as long as it ladders up to a higher order of purpose. If there’s no red thread that links to that, that’s not good. You can’t build trust. …And today’s measure of success is if I truly have a relationship with the brand.”
Trust, and being in a Values Economy is greatly affecting brands right now.
Sustainability and similar values are amplified more now in our pandemic context and impact how consumers make purchase decisions…There’s a lot of de-selection going on today.”
Jackman also explains the only two consumer choice tiebreakers
Jackman Takeaway: “I’ve helped well north of 50 companies, and along the way I noticed we’re wired as humans to behave in certain ways. One of the things we don’t love is change. … But I observed ways of thinking and doing that enabled success to come faster… I got them down to five. … For example, the first one is ‘seek insight everywhere’.”
Learn to understand cultural currency and even reinvent the old marketing maxim of: ‘I need to pay attention to the customers that I do the most business with.’ (Hint: that’s fine, but you also “don’t want to be a brand or a business that’s like a great aunt: you know, fondly thought of, but never visited.” [That hit a little close to home for this host! Just sayin’.] So, learn to have relevant conversations with the up and coming set of customers [and with, note to self, the nieces and nephews.]
Understand how DEI dovetails with cultural relevance and brand values… and what Jackman would change most about our world. (Note: Hat tip: Maryam Banikarim)
Finally, what brand would Jackman reinvent next?
“What do I want to reinvent? The next company that interests me or has lost its way. And there’s so much of that. How wonderful to spend a career on just figuring out the next act of whatever! And, since climate change is real, and we have to start to make a real difference, those are the kinds of opportunities I’m gravitating towards now. And I’m super excited to be at least part of the solution as best I can.”